Print Page | Close Window

Removal of Gall Bladder = now "drowning" in bile!

Printed From: Barrett's Support Forum
Category: Barrett's Support Forum
Forum Name: Support Forum
Forum Discription: News and Events
URL: http://www.barrettscampaign.org.uk/forum//forum_posts.asp?TID=485
Printed Date: 24 May 2019 at 9:28pm


Topic: Removal of Gall Bladder = now "drowning" in bile!
Posted By: bouncethruit
Subject: Removal of Gall Bladder = now "drowning" in bile!
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 12:45pm
CryHad Gall Bladder removed Sept. '09, at the time on Estrogen only HRT and at the time experiencing dripping nose even on a hot day...
 
Since removal of Gall Bladder, noticed two months down the line hoarse voice and chesty cough and "itchyness" in oesophageous.  History of Asthma and COPD (father died of Pulmonary Fibrosis two years ago, COPD appears to be a genetically tendency in family which eventually kills...)
 
Since removal of Gall Bladder, I have subsequently been diagnosed with 1cm Barretts, I have lost three and a half stones and cannot swallow easily.  I have always got sensation of "saltyness" going into my nose and sinuses and down the back of my throat, this had made life pure misery.  My voice is now permanantly affected and now lowered and my breathing is becoming constricted.   I am most concerned that COPD does not start up...  
 
I am presently on 40 mg Omeprazole twice daily and 125mg Ranitidine twice daily.   Joint stiffness and limb lethargy are also dragging me down which is a bit of a downer to say the least.  When I first started on the meds my hair started to shed, but now its stabilising.   I think i'm becoming more tolerant (is that a good thing?)
 
I am presently getting a "glowing to hot", itchy sensation around my oesphageous.  I have read that bile is very dangerous because it cannot be controlled by PPI's anywayBroken%20HeartExclamation Question.   I have recently had a PH/Manometry Test done which showed I have a "weakness in my Oesphageous".
 
I would be very, very grateful for any feedback from anyone about this pleaseQuestion 


-------------
GfromWalesUK



Replies:
Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:00pm
Hi again, G,

Sorry to hear of your problems.

There is a strong link between COPD & GORD. And often symptoms of COOPD may be attributed to GORD.

The hair loss does seem to be a side effect some patients discover whilst on high doses of PPI's.
As your pH levels are normal, have you tried to see what happens when you stop PPI's?

Your voice is affected because refluxed acid or bile has attacked your vocal chords. The weakness in your oesophagus probably refers to the lower oesophageal sphincter which has permitted reflux to occur but your upper oesophageal sphincter also sounds damaged. This results in Laryngopharyngeal reflux (LPR) which permits refluxed elements to enter the throat and trachea - hence the breathing problems.

I think it's worth considering asking your consultant about the possibility of surgery.

I am not a doctor and there are risks associated with surgery but it worked for me; I no longer have bile refluxing nor do I need PPI's. And my cough has been considerably reduced.

Chris


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:04pm
P.S.

Meant to add, gall problems can occur as a result of GORD but I'm guessing the problems you're having, you would have had even if your gall bladder hadn't been removed.

I had similar problems before my fundo. I had my gall bladder out a few months later. And my gall bladder operation was actually worse than the fundoplication operation. It means I have nine miniscule scars from laparoscopic surgery but you need a magnifying glass to find them!

Chris


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:17pm
GeekThanks for That Chris, I don't feel so bad now knowing that I'm not on my own with the Gall-Bladder trouble.
 
Just for the record in my late father's family there appears to be related tendancies amongst family members for issues with hormones/COPD/Asthma/Oesophageal Issues/Gall Stones and Gord.
 
ExclamationI find this really interestingLamp.  I have two daughters and don't want them to suffer as I and my father and his mother have suffered previously before them. 
 
I will do anything so that they don't go down the same route...


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:48pm
There does seem to be a tendency for a familial link. COPD/Asthma/Gall/GORD do seem related.
(I have a brother with asthma and my GP thought I might have it too - though was just the reflux.)
I am interested in your query regarding hormones. It's not something I have seen reported but between you and me, I'm also having hormonal problems. (The "male menopause", whilst not so easily recognised, does exist for some of us.) I'm going to do some more research on that.


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2010 at 4:14pm
ith a bit of digging you can find, on the www, plenty of hints that Omeprazole can actually cause bile production and reflux. If you realise that PPIs are metabolised by the liver, that is hardly surprising, I think.

Also - PPIs have short half-lives, so a large dose is almost entirely sorted out by the liver.

Bile production is normally triggered mainly by fats in food. To reflux at odd times, which cannot be food-related, something else has to be triggering bile production!

I had bile reflux and successfully cured it by gradually decreasing Omeprazole dosage little and often is the logical way. I am now on 3 1/2 10mG doses per day. Works fine! But it's taken me two years of self-experimenting and www search to get there !

Full blog is at   http://www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/HHetc.html


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 9:42am
Thanks for that RichardT!
 
DeadOmeprazole just appears to thicken things upDead
 
I have been taking Motilium to speed things up but I find that taking this is making my tummy feel sore and the Omeprazole helps to alleviate this soreness.
 
ExclamationI have also read somewhere that Omeprazole may contribute towards bile production... and that it may also make bile reflux actually worseI was horrified to read that there is very little that can be done for people with high bile productionConfused
 
I don't eat anything fatty whatsoever and live on a fat free diet, there, as you say, may be another reason for over production of bile. 
 
I read with interest your methods of taking Omeprazole and I think it's really down to the patient to take the doseage that suits them.  I feel I'm going to have to tailor my dose to suit my needs but I am really scared of aggravating my Barrett's and making it worse. 


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 12:10pm
> > I have also read somewhere that Omeprazole may contribute towards bile
> production... and that it may also make bile reflux actually worse.

Yes. Exactly what I read (more than one place) and exactly my experience!


> I read with interest your methods of taking Omeprazole and I think it's
> really down to the patient to take the doseage that suits them.

Clearly it is. But there is a complete shortage of data from the professionals on which to make your own judgement.

Plenty of advice - which I found to be variable and clearly opinion only.

I did a new page:
    http://www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/Ome.html
    Omeprazole dosage and side effects - Why current recommendations are wrong
    
and challenged the professionals to read it and explain exactly where my reasoning was wrong. My www logs show that it has been viewed by 5 different people, but none have commented. So either I am right or they simply can't be bothered! Or, in true "professional" style, they don't like an amateur coming up with new theories. Agreed - it is something of a spanner in the works (there must be a suitable medical phrase for that!).

Opinions are freely available. Facts are few - and appear, as in most professions, to be closely guarded by the professionals!

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 12:48pm
You said
> I don't eat anything fatty whatsoever and live on a fat free diet, there, as
> you say, may be another reason for over production of bile. 

When I was going through my health problems I had reason to investigate foods,fats and cholesterol. There are some very interesting theories but, as ever, a shortage of hard facts. Nut oils and tropical oils in general apear to be rather special. Coconut oil in particiular. Certainly it has rather special chemical and physical properties and there are claims that it will actually cause weight loss. I'm not sure how far I believe that, but I presume, if true, it must displace other body fats.

Peanuts are good - I eat lots, probably in excess of 100gm/day to alleviate swollen prostate (they do work!). There are studies which prove that they do not cause weight gain. I have had no correlation between my bile refluxes and peanuts consumed.

Other nuts too are apparently less fattening than their calory count would indicate.

There's lots of diet-related writing s on www.RayPeat.com - unlike most sites, he also quotes references for the data he uses.

Not sure how much of that is relevant to Gall-bladder problems, but I think it may help.

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 1:29pm
I just did as google for - bile nuts - interesting! have a look at:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=bile+nuts&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2004/11_30/feature15_22.html

http://www.ift.org/food-technology/past-issues/2010/may/features/online-exclusive-pine-nuts.aspx

that page reminds me: www.pfaf.org has a huge database of edible and medicinal plants. You may find some useful ideas there. try http://www.pfaf.org/user/Search_Use.aspx?glossary=Antibilious


-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 3:36pm
StarDear RichardT
 
It's reassuring to see that somebody else is experiencing the same issues as I am and is prepared to address them in the same way.   I am especially wary of taking a large dose of Omeprazole because I personally experience hair loss with it, so something obviously is causing a reaction somewhere?
 
Also apparently I have read that bile production is kicked into action just simply by swallowing?
 
All I know is that I am hoping and praying my doc says its okay for a fundo, I am seeing him next week at UHW (Cardiff).  My oesophageous feels like its glowing and I am  now starting to experience pains in my upper gullet when I swallow.  I have to physically manipulate my LES to let liquids and solids go down into my stomach to digest... what a mess!
 
I am quite wary of medication and take what I find doesn't cause any adverse reaction.  I am especially scared of increasing the Barrett's, there doesn't appear to be any other way out of this (Motilium, although it may work for others, makes my tummy sore and also makes me grumpy and on edge.)
 
Its weird because I can eat spicy foods quite easily, however, it's the consumption of dairy products that cause the "lavalamp" effect!Wink  (all Hell literally breaks loose!)
 
This is so total fun ;-D,  I am presently existing on a diet of stir-fry, boiled basmati rice and salad Dead.  I can't wait for Christmas!!!
 
Keep the faith and thanks for the advice.


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 4:43pm
> I am especially wary of taking a large dose of Omeprazole because I
> personally experience hair loss with it, so something obviously is causing a
> reaction somewhere?

I've seen a lot of side effects claimed - but not seen that one!


> Also apparently I have read that bile production is kicked into action just
> simply by swallowing?

Don't think so. But ask a professional. I don;t think there are any
professionals on these forums but I'd like to be told different!


> All I know is that I am hoping and praying my doc says its okay for a fundo,

That, to me, would seem extreme.

When I mentioned to Dr Fitzgerald that I had bile reflux - she said she could
arrange a fundoplication.

It's a serious operation - not without its own risks and I've also read that it
doesn't always work - but you can read anything on the www so that may not
mean much.

Why not try reduced doses of PPI more frequently: you have nothing to loose and
maybe a lot to gain.

> My oesophageous feels like its glowing and I am  now starting to experience
> pains in my upper gullet when I swallow.  I have to physically manipulate my
> LES to let liquids and solids go down into my stomach to digest... what a
> mess!

Yes - that does sound extreme. Could be extreme solutions are called for.

> Its weird because I can eat spicy foods quite easily, however, it's the
> consumption of dairy products that cause the "lavalamp" effect!

I found no foods that caused problems - well, one. A Polish cheese preserved
in oil. But I steer off high-fat foods in general. My general health is very
strongly related to my weight and I start to get bad just under 70kG: the main
problem then was bile. When under that weight, bile reflux is not too serious.

I put this down to visceral fat altering the geograghy of my innards and
opening the pyloric sphincter. I only found about the PPI induced bile after
losing the 5 critical kG.

> This is so total fun ;-D,  I am presently existing on a diet of stir-fry,
> boiled basmati rice and salad Dead.

Sounds OK to me! SWMBO and I both like salads: there are lots of tasty herbs
you can add to salads (see www site). We also have wild watercress available
near us! Olive oil as a dressing causes me no problems.

Good luck.


-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2010 at 12:29pm
Hi Richard,

Don't know why you are so dismissive of fundoplication. It does stop reflux which no drug regimen will, nor lifestyle changes.
Reflux need not be acid nor bile. It could be something as simple as a glass of water flowing back p the oesophagus and, if your upper oesophageal sphincter is damaged as well, can easily enter the lungs to cause damage.

I had the fundoplication operation 18 months ago.
Prior to the op, I was on 80 mg Omeprazole spread between am and pm doses. I had many of the possible side effects listed - mainly anaemia from lack of iron absorption (due to induced hypochlorhydria) causing extreme fatigue - I couldn't walk more than 50 yards.

The operation took 90 minutes and I was home the next day. Negligible pain - just some bruising managed by soluble paracetamol. And 5 sticking plasters covering the keyhole wounds.
BUT I felt alive again. Within a few days, I was walking round the block. After a couple of weeks back on my bike. Now I cycle every morning before breakfast upto 30 miles and I've been totally drug free since the op.

Chris


Posted By: Acadian
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 2:23pm
Hi Chris,
 
Does the Fundo Op prevent the Barrett's from coming Back?  Since you stopped all PPI's....
 
Acadian


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 3:03pm
Hi Acadian,

The fundo just stops reflux. It doesn't cure Barrett's - I still have it. BUT I don't need to suppress stomach acid as it's no longer affecting my oesophagus.
Hopefully my Barrett's won't get worse - why should it? - and there's a slight chance it could even slowly heal itself.

Chris


Posted By: jcombs99
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 3:05pm
The correct way is to get rid of ALL barrettes then do the fundo because it's harder to ablate once you had a fundo .I didn't do that BUT the doctor said he got it all.You hope and pray the fundo works then it could be better then normal OR you will still gets barettes again..

FUNDO, HGD JEFF


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 3:59pm
Hi Everyone!
 
Its interesting to read of your experiences and opinions, I am really grateful for this feedback.Lamp 
 
I'm in so much discomfort with the Barettes at the moment, my quality of life is pretty zilch.  My voice is now quite altered by stuff on my vocal chords and I have started coughing.  I am practically sitting up when I am in bed and having to sleep in this position because my lungs are becoming affected.
 
My Barrettes started up because of my Gall Bladder removal, I think something healed up internally at the operation site which resulted in a "repositioning" of my oesophagus.  My Barrettes followed.  It feels like i'm being internally eroded by salt water.  I think that the Oesphagus has got to be put in a "healthier" or at least, a more normal position and then hopefully it will stand a chance of healing itself.
 
I wonder how many other people there are out there are in this same situation like meThumbs%20Up


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 4:03pm
Hi G,

Your gall problems and your Barrett's were probably developing simultaneously. I personally found my cholecystectomy had no effect on my reflux - but I had already had the fundoplication.
Your discomfort is from the reflux - be it acid, bile or just mucus or even water.
I do sympathise greatly as the cough was my worst symptom. I used to sit up coughing for two hours at a time in the early hours of the morning: coughing until I practically passed out. I drank copious amounts of pholcodine linctus cough suppressant and sucked Hall's cough sweets - anything to attempt to nullify the cough reflex - but then, again, it collects in the lung and has to be coughed up sometime!
Your reflux is because of the weal oesophageal sphincters - both lower and upper - rather than a possible misalignment of the oesophagus.
Although Barrett's can in some cases, heal itself, it's actually quite uncommon. If can stop acids refluxing into the oesophagus, however, it stands a better chance of not developing further. However, your PPIs will be reducing the acid but not the reflux. There aren't any effective drugs for this - just gravity or an operation.

Chris


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 7:56am
Hi ChrisBig%20smile
 
I have been reading on the net how so many have high regard for the use of combined PPI's,  I am now experimenting by taking a lower doseage rate of Omeprazole, but not of Ranitidine I don't like the side effects of these pillsEmbarrassed!!! 
Just lets leave it at not very ladylike
 
I am afraid of taking anything orally for the pain (it feels like an inflamed, itchy feeling inside)  in case it inflames anything more.  I don't like the feeling of being out of control or woozy.
 
I had a sad experience earlier this year when someone I worked with(who also had Barrett's), actually developed a tumour... 
 
This has considerably freaked me out to say the leastUnhappy 


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 8:06am
Dear G,

If you are feeling the pains in your oesophagus you describe, oesophagitis, you do really need to combat any acid that is causing it. You may find you have to increase your PPIs rather than decrease them.
But you're right not to take pain killers for it as they can actually make it worse.

Chris


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 8:15am
ConfusedThanks for that Chris
 
I am seeing doc at hospital tomorrow. 
 
I will mention this because discomfort it pretty unbearable at times
 
Will keep everyone posted.  Keeping the faith!


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: jcombs99
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 11:17am
B
   Painkillers are very bad for your GI tract ..Every few weeks I get a email from ACG and they will have studies from doctors on the latest things on the GI tract . There is one on pain killers and what they do to you . The man across the street has them ALL,infection, barrettes ,nodules,colon polys, BLEEDING thats how they found the mess .
EVERYONE GO online and sign up it's free.
WWW.acg.gi.org
MAKE SURE YOU TELL THE DOCTOR ABOUT YOUR LOWER DOSE PPI'S AND LETS SEE WHAT THE DOCTOR SAYS......

HGD JEFF


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 8:37pm
Hey Chris,

I was interested to read about the surgery you had? Could you tell me what this was? I was diagnosed with Barrett's in April and struggle with breathing, poor vocal cords and sore throats. I had to come off the meds as they made me gain weight. This was another hassle I could have did without :(.

They think I need my Gall Bladder out too, so things seem a bit up in the air. My consultant is seeing me in Dec so I am hopeful they will have a solid plan of treatment for me.

I am petrified my vocal cords will be permanently damaged and that I eventually get the big horrid C...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated from all,

Thank you,
Sech! xxx


Posted By: jcombs99
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 8:55pm
sech
Was there any Dysplasia in thats barrettes?

Have a nice day
HGD JEFF


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 10:26pm
Hey Jeff,

I received a 24hr PH study (tube down the nose and throat)...the results of that were "pathological reflux" with de meester scoring of 19.1. also- a biopsy on my oeosphagael came up with Barrets on my "distal oesphagael".

Dysplasia sounds familiar but I don't know if that is because I have been reading these posts now.

Why? My days almost over here is freezing Glasgow :( Hope you have a good day,
Sech x


Posted By: jcombs99
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 10:37pm
S
   The stages go 1) barrettes 2) low grade Dysplasia 3) High grade Dysplasia (had that) 4)cancer .Then they stage the cancer..My Demmesster score was 30 off ppis very high, 1.1 on ppis very low.
Take a look at the test this is important.

HGD JEFF


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 10:46pm
Hey Jeff, I have looked out my results and there are no mentions in either of Dysplasia...is that good then?

My symptoms really just started last winter so this is all relatively new to me. I stopped the meds in Sept (was taking them from April) and since stopping them my throat hurts and my voice is changing and seems very weak....its really scary how quick this has happened.

I am seeing my consultant in Dec so hoping he will suggest some positive treatments. Do you know what types of treatment/operations other than meds are avaialble? My GP is not very helpful sstating I need to wait to speak with the consultant but it is months and months between appointments...so much for the NHS!!!

I'm sorry to hear about your problems      How are you feeling now? Are you on the mend???

Best wishes,
Sech x


Posted By: jcombs99
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 10:57pm
S
VERY good NO DYSPLASIA...Did you take the ph test while you where on ppis or did you stop for 7 days before you did the test????

J


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 11:00pm
Hi Sech, Welcome,

I had a fundoplication in April 2009 - where they wrap the top of the stomach round the bottom of the oesophagus to strengthen the ineffective lower oesophageal sphincter to prevent reflux.

Prior to that, I had been on 80mg Omeprazole a day. My DeMeester score was something like 179!
I hadn't been overweight (until a sustained period of inactivity occasioned by anaemia - a side effect of prolonged high dosage Omeprazole), I don't smoke, consume very little alcohol and followed all the other "lifestyle" advice. But my reflux had, like yours, attacked my upper oesophageal sphincter, too, permitting refluxed matter to enter my lungs. I'd asked my GP at one stage to send me for chest x-rays as I was convinced there was radical damage.

I had to have my gall bladder out in October last year. Although I'd had nearly six months without reflux by then, the damage had already been done. (Richard T will say it was because of the omeprazole - my jury's still out.)

You would have been told if you had dysplasia. If they found high grade dysplasia, they will be talking to you about frequent surveillance, rather than every two or three years, and talking with you about the possibilities of surgical intervention to ablate the Barrett's.

It can be bewildering when first diagnosed to get to grips with everything. Hopefully you will find most of the answers by trawling this site, but please feel free to ask any questions, there's usually a few of us who have had the same experiences who may be able to help.

All the best

Chris


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 11:00pm
I stopped for 14 days before the PH study...that was one nasty test!!!


Posted By: jcombs99
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 11:09pm
S
This is what happened to me I went off ppi's been on them for two years then I scored a 30 .. Me and the doctor agreed REFUNDO time... I said for the fun of it lets do the test on drugs . Well we were both wrong I scored 1.1 no need for a refundo . WHAT I KNOW I LEARNED 1/2 ON THE BLOGS AND THE OTHER FROM HOSPITAL WEBSITES . JUST RUN EVERY THING BY A DOCTOR BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ..

HGD JEFF


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 11:11pm
Chris,

Thank you so much for this! Am so glad I found this forum as a lot of things are getting answered in one night. I have never had heartburn unlike a lot of others on this site yet suffer terribly from shortness of breath (and I still go for long runs so my lungs are still working), sore throats ect are now constant. I just don't understand how I can get so weezy and laboured. But seeing that my Barrett's is at the upper part now makes sense.

Your de meester score was soo high!...yikes, are you doing better now?

How did you find getting your Gall Bladder out? Its due to my difficulties with that at xmas last year that they found the Barrett's...I have to get that out too but the consultant said they may be able to do both things at the one time...I have no idea what they meant. Unfortunately, its a very long waiting game with the NHS.

Thank you so much, you have all been very helpful tonight! x


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 11:12pm
Ok, thank you Jeff...you have been so helpful. Going to bed, its late over here. Night night :)


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 9:01am
> Although I'd had nearly six months without reflux by then, the damage
> had already been done. (Richard T will say it was because of the
> omeprazole - my jury's still out.)

Problem is that there are other things that will cause bile reflux.
Things are not simple. However I have established beyond doubt that
Omeprazole does (in me) cause consistent bile reflux (and a cough) if the
dosage is too high. Not so the low dosage!

On the low dosage I have had only one (not severe) bile reflux in 6 weeks.
General bile level was consistently bad-tasting, not infrequently very
severe. Now it very rarely is even very mildly noticeable.

There may well be other causes of bile reflux which are dominant in
others.

The available facts on Omeprazole indicate that daily or even twice
daily doses result in massively higher blood levels than are necessary
for acid supression - there may be other facts which are not available.

There are plenty of differing opinions! Ask any two doctors!
But also ask them for facts...

This all works for me: it took me two years of careful experimenting
to get there!

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 6:47pm
Hey guys,

Omeprazole was the medication I was on and although it worked as in kept the bile and acid at bay, I gained weight over a 6 month period so came off them. Now on Ranitidine but not taking them all the time hence the sore throats and vocal cords going. I wish there was an op to make it all better :((((

Hope you are all well on the wintry cold night...brrrrrrr....the weather is horrid here is Scotland!!!


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 6:50pm
Can I ask guys why painkillers are bad as I need mine for problems with my wrist at work just now (too much PC work)and without them I am struggling to type reports. I know I have not to take anti inflammatory tablets but painkillers???...Any advice would be great appreciated. x


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 7:21pm
> Omeprazole was the medication I was on and although it worked as
> in kept the bile and acid at bay, I gained weight over a 6 month
> period so came off them.

A curious one! Omeprazole does inhibit acid. Acid is there to help
digestion: in particular it hydrolyses meat, same action as
tenderising it in a marinade. So cats, being total carnivores, have
a lower pH (acid) than we humans.

In that light - no acid should make certain foods less digestible,
so I do not see how they could cause you to gain weight.

Maybe you ate the wrong foods? Calorie count is not all there is to
it: nuts in general and particularly coconuts and peanuts are far
less fattening than any calorie count would indicate.

The other purpose of stomach acid is to kill bugs. I was warned (not
by the Barrett's/endoscopy staff) to me careful of takeaway foods
for that reason.

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 9:26pm
Nope, no wrong foods Richard. I already ate very healthy before I was diagnosed with problems with my gall bladder in Dec and since then have been on a very low fat diet. In addition to this my exercise regime is approx 4/5 days a week depending on work/family commitments.

The bloatedness and sluggishness related to these tabs was awful also. I went up a dress size in 6 months and coming off the tablets lost the same weight within 14 days. Not once did I change what I had been doing food/exercises wise during those 14 days so that is really my evidence.

I have no idea why this happened to me but it did and when researching the tablet I came across lots of forums with people with similar experiences than me.

I am remaining on a very low fat diet (which I love) due to my gall bladder issues so I suppose that's why I know its was not because I had changed my eating habits re the weight gain.

Sech x


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 9:52pm
Sech

What you describe could only, I thought, be water retention.

Sure enough a Google for - omeprazole "water retention" - throws up a lot of pages.

The more I look at the drug, the more problems I find with it. This is all consistent with my finding that recommended dosage leads to huge changes in blood level and that a lot blood level is all that is needed for acid prevention.

Question is - how do I make the professionals take notice. I find it astonishing that there are zero professionals viewing the forum - although it is set up by UCL, Division of Surgery & Interventional Science, Royal Free & University College Medical School. There are other colleges/hospitals involved, including Addenbrokes (Cambs University) - but no professional is even curious about what's going on here or has the courtesy to join us.

Damn good job they aren't doing brain surgery! But it makes me feel like a lab rat!


-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 10:56pm
Yes Richard, I agree totally with you. My GP knows nothing about this and was only too happy to prescribe the medication. When I complained about the breathing she had the nerve to say it was probably panic attacks as the shortness of breath I was describing was text book!...She refused to check me out in any way.

Now don't get me started with the hospital profession...I agree also that they should be taking some form of interest in sites/forums like this for research purposes...surely we are the best guinea pigs/lab rats out there as these drugs have already been tried and tested on us!???

My ph test was on the 3rd of Aug...I only got lettered 3 weeks ago to say my appointment with the consultant to discuss the results is on the 14th of Dec????. And I bet all they will do is fobbed me off with more medication that has a zillion other health problems related to it. I hope not, but to be honest...I'm not too impressed with my care up to now. Here's hoping after Dec I will have a clear plan of action.

Hope your well
Sech x


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 8:51am
> Yes Richard, I agree totally with you. My GP knows nothing about this
> and was only too happy to prescribe the medication.

But the doctors know (because the drug companies tell them) that PPIs
are safe drugs with almost no side effects.

It therefore follows that all side effects are psychosomatic.

There is a huge interest in Barrett's and in particular cancer: the
doctors are far too busy studying this to notice us experimental
animals squeaking.

There is one clear point about PPI dosage which is far too obvious for
any medic to see it: drug response and biochemistry is a very
complicated field. Far too complicated for any patient to ever come up
with anything of use!

My experiments were to do with reducing my dosage to the minimum. Now I've got there all side effects are absent.

It would be very enlightening for others to do similar experiments. For instance, if you are not taking PPIs, you could start taking very small, frequent doses and see when you start to notice effects.

It's easy to open a 10mG capsule and divide the contents into two roughly equal parts. I find it easy to simply swallow the small quantity of granules, but the official instructions are to mix them with apple sauce, yoghurt or something of that texture. Not difficult.

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 12:53pm
I would caution anyone experimenting with their medication to at least inform their GP.

Whereas I agree GP's training in new drugs comes from the drugs companies so concentrate on positives whilst ignoring (to some extent) side effects, and I agree there are many worrying possible side effects of long-term high-dosage use of PPI's, there may be other factors that need to be considered, eg. interactions with other medication.

I'm glad Richard has found a drug regimen that works for him.

Chris


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 11:32pm
I wish I could find one for me.... still early days for me but dear god above the symptoms are horrendous...Roll on the 14th of Dec, x


Posted By: jcombs99
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 11:46pm
S
   I built my house in 90 days . Tell them your throwing up might be good to get in a bit sooner (LIE).

JEFF


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 9:55am
I'm going to letter the consultant Jeff to inform them of my recent difficulties. I hope this will assist them in my care plan as I do not want to attend 5 months after the last procedure to be told they can do nothing for me.

You see when I had the last procedure the meds were working great and I had not link my bloatedness ect to the drug so they may think im doing well on the meds and leave me like that.
Thanks for the advice me dear, x


Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 9:57am
Richard, I will need to write this stuff down before I attend the consultant as there is noooo way I would remember it all...hehehehe...dear god, are you medically trained?
Thanks for the advice
Sech, x


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 10:38am
Sech:
> are you medically trained?

No.

But that may allow me to see things that a trained person does not. Thoughout my life I have had a tendency to look over people's shoulders and see things they have missed! A training does tend to narrow a person's view of things.

You can learm a lot about me from my www writings on my several www sites (which you will probably also find quite entertaining - they are quite varied)
e.g. http://www.Torrens.org.uk/Biography/rjt.html   Author's mini-biography

When I go into anything I tend to get in fairly deeply.

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: Sech
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 10:54am
Hehehehe..oh you are a tonic!...rushing out to work just now but will check those sites out tonight on my return!...bloody late one tonight as I do Group work with teens on a Wed night...are you feeling my pain? I suppose the stress of a CF social worker is contributing to my health problems but as you say, I dont want to narrow things down and want to keep an open mind so as nothing is missed!.

Have GREEAT DAY,
Sech X


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 11:24am
Another question which will, I think, cause consternation with *any* drug is
"What is the minimum effective dose"

It's a concept which we probably all take for granted. Yet it seems to be something the 'trade' has never considered.

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 11:02am
ExclamationThread Update...
 
Saw my consultant's registrar last week.   All I have to say is thank God that I have been reading advice on this site!
 
Young doc informed me that he would send me off for a short period of time on "new" medication.  I told him what I had been previously taking.  He wouldn't let me get a word in edgeways to explain exactly what I was taking as prescribed from GP
(!?! typical Brit 2010 style NHS...)   I really think he thought I was a dumb blond!
 
On the positive side however, he did discuss the possibility of a fundo which I informed him that I felt would be the best course of action, afterall its my body chaps and I am the patient...Big%20smile
 
Took "new" prescription for "new" medication to GP to be written into a script and guess what, turns out I am already on this medicationEvil%20Smile.
 
This morning have telephoned co-ordinator for new appointment to see consultant with a view to the possibility of fundo.
 
In the meantime I have been instructed to take large doses of Omeprazole 2 x 40 plus an additional dose of 2 x 20 because its absolutely necessary to control pain plus the accompanying Ranitidine, apparently my upper oesophageal sphincter has a weakness with high levels of acid now coming up into my lungs and my precious vocal chords.
 
Omeprazole gives me lethargy, weakness and makes my osteo-athritis a  thousand times worse.  I also find I become depressed on it.  It appears to make me sleepy besides the bloody hair loss.Broken%20Heart  Its great to read the experiences of other men and women going through this, its quite a tough time for me, the medication is just as bad as the complaint...
 
I am obviously now considering legal action because I think I would have a case...
 
Not a very happy or satisfied G.
 
  
 
 


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 2:28pm
Hi G,

I do sympathise. Sounds like you're in exactly the same situation as I was 18 months ago. - Except I was lucky to have a very good GI consultant and specialist nurse to discuss things with.

But I was on the 2 x 40 Omeprazole plus other antacids - and glugging down the Gaviscon like an addict. Plus the Laryngopharyngeal reflux cough and the side effects of the PPI - especially the lethargy. Don't know whether I had hair loss because of the drugs or because of my age: they say if you're balding on top (like me), it's sexy; if you have receding hairline (like me) you're a thinker; if you have both you just think you're sexy!

Anyway, the fundo was great for me and I've been totally drug free ever since. If that's what you want and you can get it, I hope you're as lucky as I was.

All the best

Chris


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 12:04pm
Hi Chris
 
Thanks for that!
 
I am currently swallowing my recommended daily dose of Omeprazole and Ranitidine plus more (I have been instructed to do this by doc, although I only do this if really necessary.)   I think I have been experiencing DeadOesophagitisDead which has been really painful and unpleasant, its even affecting my sinuses and eye sockets!
 
On the upside I am now a supermodel size eight and fighting the blokes off,  (its just that I feel too ill really to do anything about it!)  Anyway, life has got to go on and I have to prepare for my fundo which I am doing because I find I am experiencing side affects from the drugs and I want to be a drug free zone.
 
Bye the way, my consultant's registrar tried to tell me that if I had the fundo that this would actually cure the Barrette's and I know for a fact that this is not actually the case from what I have read on this site and on the web.   
 
This is a bit scary to say the least, I want to change hospitals...
 
I have read that Omeprazole combined with Ranitidine even after a fundo does help keep the Oesphageal cells nice and healthy... 
 
Taking it all one day at a time.
 
Best wishes to everyoneSmile


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 12:23pm
Hi G,

It does sound as if your consultant (or at least his registrar) is not very clued up at all.

As you so rightly say, the fundo will not cure Barrett's. There is a small chance that, removed from an acid environment, the Barrett's cells may slowly heal themselves. But they shouldn't get worse.

Neither Omeprazole nor Ranitidine have any direct affect on the oesophagus. They just tackle the acid. Without stomach acid refluxing, the healthy squamous epithilium will remain healthy.

After a fundo, you shouldn't need any medication unless you have a stomach ulcer from excess acid attacking the stomach lining.

I'm sorry, I don't know any GI consultants, good or bad, from Wales.

All the best

Chris


Posted By: jcombs99
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 2:22pm
B&C
It's the patients too. I had a surgern tell me forget about the PH test if you don't feel heartburn your fine but if you want a refundo come on it (mayo) .Surgern " I never heard of silent Reflux "..GI " I never heard of the REbound effect ".. Best one yet , person looking around for a doctor to do a EMR on her stage 1 cancer to SAVE money . But is going to put it off for awhile because of a holiday trip (spend money)..You can always get in to see a doctor quicker just figure out how to do it like I did . I have many more KEEP an eye on everyone . Treat your health like your money and you"ll do much better.

HGD , CHEAP, JEFF


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 4:07pm
Hi JeffSmile
 
 
"Treat your health like your money and you"ll do much better."
 
I couldn't agree more on that point, I won't be taking any chances in future and investing in a survival for tomorrow...
 
Cheers guys.
 
Love Gilly.


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 2:00pm
Update!Wink
 
Since I last posted I am now on waiting list for Fundo (with DES?, just incidentally, what does DES stand for please?)  I really don't know whether to laught or cry...
 
Reflux being "controlled" to a certain extent by Omeprazole, Ranitidine and Domperidone up to four times daily in an attempt to stop this infernal backflush up into my head and behind my nasal cavity, it is really quite distressing, its so bad it even makes my eye sockets itch only - not - from inside my eyes (weird or what?) 
 
My nose drips in embarrassing situations, I've really had enough of this!  
 
It feels as if my oesophageal sphincter has "slipped" in my diaphragm, I think it was previously held in position by my big, black gallstones and gallbladder which was removed.  I actually did have reflux on the morning of my gallbladder removal because I mentioned this to the surgeon prior to surgery, its only become much worse after the removal of the offending article.
 
Will I ever get better? I am worried I will have to continued with the copious amounts of PPI's etc after the Fundo. 
 
Best Wishes,
a fed-up Gilly.    
 
 


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 3:30pm
Hi Gilly,

It's good news you're now on the waiting list. I hope you don't have to wait too long.

I'm not sure exactly what DES is. I'm guessing it's Distal Esophageal Suture, which is used to repair an Hiatus Hernia. I'll be seeing a couple of oesophageal consultants at a meeting tonight. I'll ask.

I do know the suffering you're going through. The medications do restrict the acid production but they do absolutely nothing to control the reflux. I've suffered all my life with what has always been described as catarrh (including post nasal drip, sinusitis, otitis media) - but now I know that much of it was actually to do with reflux. When reflux reaches the back of the throat, it can travel up the eustachian tube, the nose, the tear ducts ...

Hopefully your fundo will be as successful as mine and you'll end up totally drug free.

All the best

Chris


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 5:21pm
> I'm not sure exactly what DES is.

I'm with Chris on this, I have found
diffuse esophageal spasm (US spelling!)
distal esophageal sphincter (US spelling!)

but as bouncethruit is from Wales, the US spelling of oesophagus is unlikely

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 6:32pm
> The medications do 1restrict the acid production but they do absolutely
> nothing to control the reflux.

From what I have learnt, excess control of acidity relaxes the lower oesophageal sphincter by unbalancing gastrin and other hormones. So on 'normal' doses of PPIs, reflux is likely to be worse.

-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: Terrapin54
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 12:02pm
> I've suffered all my life with what has always been described as catarrh (including post nasal drip, sinusitis, otitis media) - but now I know that much of it was actually to do with reflux. When reflux reaches the back of the throat, it can travel up the eustachian tube, the nose, the tear ducts ...

Hi Chris,
I was very interested to read your above comments. I too have suffered with catarrh most of my life, including sinusitis and allergic rhinitis, and even had two minor nose ops many years ago which did little to alleviate the symptons. Until your remarks I had never associated it with Barrett's. I often get a runny nose when eating (bit embarrasing sometimes) and for the first time yesterday noticed the slight itching at the back of my eyes too. I jus wonder how many years this has been down to Barrett's possibly before I was diagnosed.
Regards
Richard Star


-------------
Whereof of one cannot speak, one must remain silent.


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 12:10pm
Hi Richard,

It's not actually the Barrett's but the acid reflux that caused the Barrett's that may be attacking your nasal cavities etc.

There were some research data released recently regarding the use of PPIs as a way of treating otitis media in children.

Chris


Posted By: RichardT
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 2:25pm
> Until your remarks I had never associated it with Barrett's. I
> often get a runny nose when eating (bit embarrasing sometimes) and
> for the first time yesterday noticed the slight itching at the back
> of my eyes too.

When you are eating normal muscle action in the oesophagus would make reflux impossible.

Reflux of solids happens after eating particularly, when the stomach is full. Liquid reflux occurs when the stomach is empty - so almost any time!


-------------
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org



Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 11:58am
Hi Guys!
 
I like to read your posts when the going gets just a little tough at this end.  On the subject of the runny nose, its only since I started seriously developing GORD that I noticed just how badly my nose starts to drip (worse in cold weather).  It is really embarrassing, especially when your looking real pretty ready to go out with full make-up etc.  Of course, being guys you wouldn't have that problem...
 
In addition, my Dad died of a condition called Pulmonary Fibrosis.  His nose continually dripped just like mine, he always suffered from acid indigestion terribly and it is from his side of the family that I reckon the gallstones also come from.  I am extremely concerned to say the least that the eternally dripping conk is going to go on to cause Pulmonary Fibrosis in my lungs. 
 
I am totally convinced there is a connection between the GORD and lung disease, it stands to reason.
 
Any thoughts?
 
CheersWink
G
 


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: chrisrob
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 12:54pm
Hi G,

When my worst symptom was the cough, in the days when my GP was sending me to ENT and before I understood the reflux cause, http://www.yourlunghealth.org/dr_tom/ - I found this American website and asked some pertinent question. receiving the answer a few weeks later that GORD certainly can damage your lungs but once the acid reflux has been stopped, your lungs can start to recover.
I don't know whether he is still actively answering lung questions as it appears his last post is 2009 but searching his previous answers may help?

Chris


Posted By: bouncethruit
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 3:14pm
WinkThanks Chris,
 
It's only by comparing notes with other sufferers that you realise what is going on with your condition.  There is nothing worse than having to face the World on your own, or when no-one understands what is going on with you.  Its ghastly. 
 
Even my two daughters just look at me when I explain that I sometimes consciously have to make my oesophagus swallow.  I think this is hard work and its this internal maniplation that is quietly tiring me out.  I fall asleep on the sofa more easily than I ever used to.
 
This is a tough condition to have to live with although I find mixing with people (when my nose isn't running, oh joy!)  Helps tremendously.
 
Not many people are able to empathise except for actual sufferers.
 
Cheers,
Gilly 


-------------
GfromWalesUK


Posted By: briankeating
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 12:10pm
Hey i just had my and it was quite painful so I am hoping to get well soon please send me wishes so that i get back to normal soon

-------------
http://daysurgerylondon.com/gallbladder.htm - Gall Bladder Removal



Print Page | Close Window