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Carolyn
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Quote Carolyn Replybullet Calendar Event: Apple Cider Vinegar
    Posted: 15 May 2011 at 3:25am
Hullo from The Antipodes:   Has anyone tried Apple Cider Vinegar as a remedy for reflux etc.   I have found a very interesting forum on the subject with nothing but positive responses.   Can it replace some of the PPIs we are all swallowing?
I have been on ranitidine for 18 months and have just slowly lowered and now eliminated it and cut back to 2x15mg Lanzoprazole daily and would like to get rid of one lot of these too.
Any comments please?
Carolyn
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chrisrob
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Quote chrisrob Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2011 at 8:32am
Hi Carolyn

Apple Cider Vinegar is hailed as one of the natural health food ways of reducing acid reflux.
When we eat (or drink), our body reacts to what we are eating or drinking. If it is already acidic, our stomachs may produce less acid (ie generate fewer proton pumps).
There are a number who swear by this sort of treatment - including those who set up websites to promote their own particular remedy and charge you to tell you that eating a particular type of apple (for example) before a meal will cure your reflux.

Cider vinegar may well reduce your acid but it won't cure your Barrett's - you'll have that for life, unfortunately,(unless you ablate it).

But always discuss reducing your medication with your doctor. When some people say they've cured their reflux, it can be they still have it but no longer feel it. Barrett's Oesophagus desensitises the oesophagus so you don't feel the acid any more but it can still be present and doing its damage.

But do try it and see if it works for you.
All the best

Chris
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johnd
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Quote johnd Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2011 at 10:37am
A couple of thoughts.
Carolyn: 30mg PPI's is modest, have you experienced side effects?
ChrisRob: "Barrett's Oesophagus desensitises the oesophagus". Common sense tells me that's right, have you seen any eveidence of that anywhere or did a gastro tell you?
I'd be amazed if Cider Vinegar did anything to be honest.    Acetic acid and apples, I can't quite see it - but you never know.
55yo, diagnosed 2011 at 5cm Barrett's, 3cm as at 2013 (?), so far non-D
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chrisrob
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Quote chrisrob Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2011 at 11:01am
Hi John,

Its is fairly well known that intestinal metaplastic cells do not have the sensitivity of the squamous epythelium.
I don't know where I originally learned that but I have heard it referred to many times by gastroenterologists since.

There have been many well supported claims for various fruits that they can help prevent acid reflux: I have seen claims for cranberries, blackberries, apples, etc. lettuce and cider vinegar.

You may be right to be sceptical, however, if you read this report: Acid/Alkali Theory of Disease is Nonsense.

And this article is also helpful: Acid Stomach myths.

This article should be read carefully bearing in mind the Acid/Alkali one above: Acidosis Diet Treatment.

However, with a large number of proton pumps turned off by PPI's, it may be necessary to add a small amount of acid when eating to start the dissolving process. I discovered a small glass of red wine with my dinner helped considerably - and tastes nicer than apple vinegar.

All the best

Chris
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jcombs99
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Quote jcombs99 Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2011 at 2:01pm
C
    You have LGD so before you do ANYTHING ask your DOCTOR first .You know what your doctor will want to do if it gos HGD...If you look on the curebarretts website they have the data on changes so take a look see ..Don't forget about the " silent reflex " thing which means you could drink battery acid like ME and not feel it.See if they will spend the money for a 24 hr PH test(cheap) ?? This will tell you what foods your stomach doesn't like and IF your on the correct dose of PPIs.. My motto is " Test Don't Guess "

   One quick phone will tell how many he has done and whats the COST OR call AUS...This is not a big deal I did 17 docs in 2 yrs.

HGD JEFF

Edited by jcombs99 - 15 May 2011 at 3:25pm
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chrisrob
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Quote chrisrob Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2011 at 2:07pm
And echoing Jeff, and answering an earlier concern of yours, I have discovered there is a doctor in New Zealand that offers HALO treatment. Though it may be distant from where you are: it's Jim Brooker at Waikato Hospital, Hamilton 3240 (found on the BARRX International website) - if your condition were to progress.

Chris
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jcombs99
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Quote jcombs99 Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2011 at 2:19pm
J
   30 mg a day is modest if your 80 yrs.old and the cancer threat is to 1/2% to 1.5% a yr . BUT if your 50 yrs old and you plan living till 85 look at the numbers..I had a doctor point this out to me on Sat.also had some one state whats the odds of the NHS spending money on you if your 67 and have HGD . I also found out a GI(which you can't go to to, rare)gets paid $180K in the UK in Yankland he gets $450K (WOW)..........

HGD JEFF

Edited by jcombs99 - 15 May 2011 at 3:01pm
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RichardT
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Quote RichardT Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2011 at 4:13pm
> > You may be right to be sceptical, however, if you read this report:
> <a href="http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html" target="_blank">Acid/Alkali Theory of Disease is Nonsense.</a>

Fine 'report' however it quotes no scientific studies which makes it mere opinion. Opinions without proper scientific basis are suspect - and this one seems to be based on prejudice rather than science!

I was told that caffeine caused increased stomach acidity. I stopped caffeine and noticed a decrease in need for PPIs. One person's findings may be true for that person (or yes they could be imagination) but they may not hold for everyone. But if one food works - others also will, either with good or bad effect.

I didn't see how any vinegar could help - until I learnt about the digestive feedback loops. Using a dietary acid to reduce stomach acid secretions makes sense - it may also tend to rectify other imbalances caused by PPIs, e.g. gastrin imbalance.

As it happens, my father was a dental consultant and he developed strongly evidenced theory about acid-alkali body balances. He wrote a book entitled "Dental disease - it's chemical causes and cures". I have a copy and have read it. There is a lot in it that I would like explained - if his theories are wrong! I also know that he effected lots of general health cures at the hospital (not just dental) by prescribing sodium bicarbonate and other things to correct blood chemistry.

Body chemistry is hugely complicated. There is a lot unknown - and surely a lot of good theories and ideas which are ignored. or were before their time. It was once the fate of herbal medicine to be dismissed as quackery. Nowadays more and more drugs ar being developed from those self-same herbs to treat just what the herbs were said to be for!

So just because we can't see how something could be effective doesn't mean it is ineffective. Nor does the fact that lots of people say something is so prove it is so. Keep an open mind. Absence of proof positive is not positive proof of absence! There have been many times in the past when all the experts in a field of learning have been later proven wrong!
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org

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RichardT
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Quote RichardT Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2011 at 4:21pm
> Its is fairly well known that intestinal metaplastic cells do not have the
> sensitivity of the squamous epythelium.

You arouse my curiosity. No, I am not trying to contradict you but do you have any evidence other that commonly held opinion?

Long ago I suspected I had increased oesophageal sensitivity. I eventually found one paper that had found proof that an inflamed oesophagus indeed did have more pain cells.

I did not find anything one way or the other mentioning changed sensitivity in Barett's. If indeed "it is fairly well known" I would expect a paper somewhere proving it scientifically.
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org

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chrisrob
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Quote chrisrob Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2011 at 4:25pm
OK.
Anyone who knows me knows I question everything and am cautious not to take things at face value but I am more likely to trust "Dr. Mirkin (is) a graduate of Harvard University and Baylor University College of Medicine", author of the "Quackwatch" report, than "Gloria (who) founded HealthCastle.com as a hobby site", author of "Acedosis Treatment Diet".
Chris

Edited by chrisrob - 16 May 2011 at 4:26pm
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