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bouncethruit
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Quote bouncethruit Replybullet Topic: Removal of Gall Bladder = now "drowning" in bile!
    Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 12:45pm
CryHad Gall Bladder removed Sept. '09, at the time on Estrogen only HRT and at the time experiencing dripping nose even on a hot day...
 
Since removal of Gall Bladder, noticed two months down the line hoarse voice and chesty cough and "itchyness" in oesophageous.  History of Asthma and COPD (father died of Pulmonary Fibrosis two years ago, COPD appears to be a genetically tendency in family which eventually kills...)
 
Since removal of Gall Bladder, I have subsequently been diagnosed with 1cm Barretts, I have lost three and a half stones and cannot swallow easily.  I have always got sensation of "saltyness" going into my nose and sinuses and down the back of my throat, this had made life pure misery.  My voice is now permanantly affected and now lowered and my breathing is becoming constricted.   I am most concerned that COPD does not start up...  
 
I am presently on 40 mg Omeprazole twice daily and 125mg Ranitidine twice daily.   Joint stiffness and limb lethargy are also dragging me down which is a bit of a downer to say the least.  When I first started on the meds my hair started to shed, but now its stabilising.   I think i'm becoming more tolerant (is that a good thing?)
 
I am presently getting a "glowing to hot", itchy sensation around my oesphageous.  I have read that bile is very dangerous because it cannot be controlled by PPI's anywayBroken%20HeartExclamation Question.   I have recently had a PH/Manometry Test done which showed I have a "weakness in my Oesphageous".
 
I would be very, very grateful for any feedback from anyone about this pleaseQuestion 


Edited by bouncethruit - 06 Apr 2011 at 12:12pm
GfromWalesUK
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chrisrob
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Quote chrisrob Replybullet Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:00pm
Hi again, G,

Sorry to hear of your problems.

There is a strong link between COPD & GORD. And often symptoms of COOPD may be attributed to GORD.

The hair loss does seem to be a side effect some patients discover whilst on high doses of PPI's.
As your pH levels are normal, have you tried to see what happens when you stop PPI's?

Your voice is affected because refluxed acid or bile has attacked your vocal chords. The weakness in your oesophagus probably refers to the lower oesophageal sphincter which has permitted reflux to occur but your upper oesophageal sphincter also sounds damaged. This results in Laryngopharyngeal reflux (LPR) which permits refluxed elements to enter the throat and trachea - hence the breathing problems.

I think it's worth considering asking your consultant about the possibility of surgery.

I am not a doctor and there are risks associated with surgery but it worked for me; I no longer have bile refluxing nor do I need PPI's. And my cough has been considerably reduced.

Chris
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Quote chrisrob Replybullet Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:04pm
P.S.

Meant to add, gall problems can occur as a result of GORD but I'm guessing the problems you're having, you would have had even if your gall bladder hadn't been removed.

I had similar problems before my fundo. I had my gall bladder out a few months later. And my gall bladder operation was actually worse than the fundoplication operation. It means I have nine miniscule scars from laparoscopic surgery but you need a magnifying glass to find them!

Chris
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Quote bouncethruit Replybullet Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:17pm
GeekThanks for That Chris, I don't feel so bad now knowing that I'm not on my own with the Gall-Bladder trouble.
 
Just for the record in my late father's family there appears to be related tendancies amongst family members for issues with hormones/COPD/Asthma/Oesophageal Issues/Gall Stones and Gord.
 
ExclamationI find this really interestingLamp.  I have two daughters and don't want them to suffer as I and my father and his mother have suffered previously before them. 
 
I will do anything so that they don't go down the same route...
GfromWalesUK
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chrisrob
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Quote chrisrob Replybullet Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:48pm
There does seem to be a tendency for a familial link. COPD/Asthma/Gall/GORD do seem related.
(I have a brother with asthma and my GP thought I might have it too - though was just the reflux.)
I am interested in your query regarding hormones. It's not something I have seen reported but between you and me, I'm also having hormonal problems. (The "male menopause", whilst not so easily recognised, does exist for some of us.) I'm going to do some more research on that.
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Quote RichardT Replybullet Posted: 09 Oct 2010 at 4:14pm
ith a bit of digging you can find, on the www, plenty of hints that Omeprazole can actually cause bile production and reflux. If you realise that PPIs are metabolised by the liver, that is hardly surprising, I think.

Also - PPIs have short half-lives, so a large dose is almost entirely sorted out by the liver.

Bile production is normally triggered mainly by fats in food. To reflux at odd times, which cannot be food-related, something else has to be triggering bile production!

I had bile reflux and successfully cured it by gradually decreasing Omeprazole dosage little and often is the logical way. I am now on 3 1/2 10mG doses per day. Works fine! But it's taken me two years of self-experimenting and www search to get there !

Full blog is at   http://www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/HHetc.html
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Quote bouncethruit Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 9:42am
Thanks for that RichardT!
 
DeadOmeprazole just appears to thicken things upDead
 
I have been taking Motilium to speed things up but I find that taking this is making my tummy feel sore and the Omeprazole helps to alleviate this soreness.
 
ExclamationI have also read somewhere that Omeprazole may contribute towards bile production... and that it may also make bile reflux actually worseI was horrified to read that there is very little that can be done for people with high bile productionConfused
 
I don't eat anything fatty whatsoever and live on a fat free diet, there, as you say, may be another reason for over production of bile. 
 
I read with interest your methods of taking Omeprazole and I think it's really down to the patient to take the doseage that suits them.  I feel I'm going to have to tailor my dose to suit my needs but I am really scared of aggravating my Barrett's and making it worse. 
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Quote RichardT Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 12:10pm
> > I have also read somewhere that Omeprazole may contribute towards bile
> production... and that it may also make bile reflux actually worse.

Yes. Exactly what I read (more than one place) and exactly my experience!


> I read with interest your methods of taking Omeprazole and I think it's
> really down to the patient to take the doseage that suits them.

Clearly it is. But there is a complete shortage of data from the professionals on which to make your own judgement.

Plenty of advice - which I found to be variable and clearly opinion only.

I did a new page:
    http://www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/Ome.html
    Omeprazole dosage and side effects - Why current recommendations are wrong
    
and challenged the professionals to read it and explain exactly where my reasoning was wrong. My www logs show that it has been viewed by 5 different people, but none have commented. So either I am right or they simply can't be bothered! Or, in true "professional" style, they don't like an amateur coming up with new theories. Agreed - it is something of a spanner in the works (there must be a suitable medical phrase for that!).

Opinions are freely available. Facts are few - and appear, as in most professions, to be closely guarded by the professionals!
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org

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RichardT
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Quote RichardT Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 12:48pm
You said
> I don't eat anything fatty whatsoever and live on a fat free diet, there, as
> you say, may be another reason for over production of bile. 

When I was going through my health problems I had reason to investigate foods,fats and cholesterol. There are some very interesting theories but, as ever, a shortage of hard facts. Nut oils and tropical oils in general apear to be rather special. Coconut oil in particiular. Certainly it has rather special chemical and physical properties and there are claims that it will actually cause weight loss. I'm not sure how far I believe that, but I presume, if true, it must displace other body fats.

Peanuts are good - I eat lots, probably in excess of 100gm/day to alleviate swollen prostate (they do work!). There are studies which prove that they do not cause weight gain. I have had no correlation between my bile refluxes and peanuts consumed.

Other nuts too are apparently less fattening than their calory count would indicate.

There's lots of diet-related writing s on www.RayPeat.com - unlike most sites, he also quotes references for the data he uses.

Not sure how much of that is relevant to Gall-bladder problems, but I think it may help.
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org

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RichardT
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Quote RichardT Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 1:29pm
I just did as google for - bile nuts - interesting! have a look at:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=bile+nuts&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2004/11_30/feature15_22.html

http://www.ift.org/food-technology/past-issues/2010/may/features/online-exclusive-pine-nuts.aspx

that page reminds me: www.pfaf.org has a huge database of edible and medicinal plants. You may find some useful ideas there. try http://www.pfaf.org/user/Search_Use.aspx?glossary=Antibilious
www sites and contact:
www.Torrens.org.uk/Med/
www.GreenBottom.org

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